The Magnetizer Helps Solve Problems?

The easy way to help manage scale problems!

► White Deposits?

We have a chlorine free pool.  What can we use to remove  the white deposit.  Lime?  Also, could tell me where I can get test kit:  LaMotte COPPER test kit model EC-70 code 3619. Thank you

No name, Hawaii, 5/7/2003

You should be able to remove the deposits, from limited areas, with an acidic solution. The deposits are not lime (calcium oxide).  Most likely the problem is due to calcium carbonate scale deposits. Try equal parts of muriatic acid and water: add the acid to the water and wear eye protection and rubber gloves. If the entire is scaled over, you probably will have to drop the pH to approximately 6 and keep it there for a while. Use the brush to help loosen the deposits. In addition, you should deal with the underlying causes. Make sure that the pH is not above 7.6 and is closer to 7.2. Keep the total alkalinity below 120 PPM, if possible.  Something tells me that your "chlorine Free" has an Ionizer. If that is the case, the use of mineral and scale treatments could interfere with the copper ions. Use them only as recommended by the equipment manufacturer. Visit LaMotte Company for information on obtaining the Copper Test Kit.  I hope that I have been of assistance.

Sincerely.  Alan Schuster, 5/8/2003

► Scaling And Green?

My 24 ft above ground vinyl lined pool has a layer of scale on the sides and is green as no chemicals were kept in the pool over the winter.  We've never had problems before with scale.  The pH is over 8.4 and the total alkalinity is high.  What do I need to tackle first the scale or the algae or do I need to adjust the pH first?  Help! I really need to get this layer of crud off my walls.  Besides scratching it off with my fingernails what will dissolve it?  Thanks.

It is not positively apparent that you have calcium scale deposits.  It is a possibility, given the fact that high pH and total alkalinity tend to promote scaling in the presence of high calcium hardness.  There is no question that you have an algae problem.  Start by lowering the pH to about 7.0, as this will help dissolve scale and make the Free Chlorine more effective.  Boost the Free Chlorine level to 5-10 PPM and keep it elevated, until the algae is gone and the water clears.  Have the water tested for calcium hardness.  If it is over 400 PPM, scaling is a distinct possibility and a calcium scale treatment should be added.   Once the water and walls improve, adjust the pool water chemistry to optimize conditions.  I hope that this information will prove helpful.

Sincerely.  Alan Schuster, 3/29/2005

► What's Floating In My Pools?

I am a service tech in Northern Nevada.  I have two pools that have a white flaky substance floating in the water.  I cannot identify this substance.  I have called the health department and a local representative for a major chemical company.  They don't know what it is, either.  The condition of the pools are as follows: Indoor, bromine as a sanitizer, heated to 82 degrees, solar cover, usage is minimal, sand filters, minimal fluctuation in chemical balance, one pool is painted and the other is plastered.  At first it looked like calcium deposits floating around.  I checked total hardness of the water and both are within respectable parameters.  There is no slime on the pool walls. No algae growth anywhere.  The sand was changed about two months ago in one pool and should be changed in the other.  I hope you can help me with this problem.  If you need more information, please don't hesitate to ask.  Sincerely.

T.B., Nevada, 1/23/2003

From your description it does sound like calcium scale deposits.  Your stated that the calcium is "reasonable."  However, Nevada is not known for soft water.  What is reasonable in your state would be considered very hard water in other areas of the country.  It is my suggestion that you proceed on the basis of a calcium problem because the problem seems to point no where else.  It is not uncommon for spas to get white floaters, caused by calcium deposits "flaking off" the underwater surfaces of the heater and circulation system.  This seems to be the same problem, but in a pool.  Even though the water chemistry might be perfectly acceptable today, if is possible that, at sometime in the past, the calcium hardness was higher or that the pH and/or total alkalinity were too high.  High pH and TA can lead to scale formation in hard water.  On this basis, I suggest that you add a double dose of a quality Mineral Treatment.  These products should act as descaling agents and help remove the deposits over time.  It is possible that the problem will appear worse for a short time, due to the accelerated "flaking off."  Afterwards, things should return to normal.  If this is, indeed, the cause of the problem, there should be an improvement in both the filter and heater efficiencies.  The fact that the sand in one pool was recently changed, does not necessarily help, because sand filters are more efficient after being used for a while.  The other one might have scale deposits in the sand bed.  I hope that this information will prove helpful.  Good luck.

Sincerely.  Alan Schuster, 1/23/2003

► Pool Water Turning Milky?

I am from Columbus, OH and work for a swimming pool company. I feel fairly knowledgeable having been in the industry for nearly 10 years. Recently I have had a recurring problem that I cannot solve or find the cause of to treat. When I add soda ash to specific pools they cloud up, not hazy but a complete cloud, almost like a bowl of milk and the only thing that will clear it up is a floc treatment or a poolside portable D.E. filter. This only happens in certain pools, not all of them. The only pattern I have noticed is that  all the pools that this happens to either have well water, old galvanized walls or poor water treatment facilities because they are out in the country a little more. I would assume that this problem is being caused by the presence of minerals or metals, but I have found nothing out of the ordinary when doing a iron/ copper test. Do you have any idea what could be the cause and the proper treatment to eliminate recurrence?  Thank you.

Todd H., Columbus, OH, 6/23/2005

While there may be traces of iron and copper in the water, that is not the problem.  These metals would produce discoloration and not just cloudy, milky-looking water.  The addition of the soda ash raised both the pH and TA.  This, in turn, lowered the solubility of calcium and other minerals and lead to the cloudy water.  Most likely these polls have high calcium hardness levels, as well as possible high level of magnesium and high TDS.  You should try and keep the pH closer to 7.2-7.4.  Calcium treatment can be added on a regular basis and all use of calcium hypochlorite should stop.  When adding soda ash, add it very slowly and distribute it around the pool perimeter.  If you refer to the page on the Langelier Index, you will gain insight to the relationship between pH, TA and calcium.  I hope that this information helps solve the problem.

Sincerely.  Alan Schuster, 6/23/2005

► Calcium And Total Hardness?

My total hardness reads 500 on strip test and my calcium hardness reads 170. What else besides calcium is total hardness comprised of?  Thanks.

Steve S., 2/21/2005

Total Hardness is comprised of calcium and magnesium hardness.  That's why the TH reading is usually higher.  If some areas magnesium can be present in the water supply.  It is much less of a problem, than is calcium hardness.  Just try and keep the pH and TA under control and avoid using products such as calcium hypochlorite.  I hope that the information proves helpful.

Sincerely.  Alan Schuster, 2/21/2005

► Langelier or Saturation Index?

I have been reading through some material that was been given to me by the pool dealer.  It refers to the Langelier Index.  Could you explain?

Bob M., Oregon, OH, 2/11/2004

The Langelier or Saturation Index is a calculation that measures the s corrosiveness or scale-forming tendencies of swimming pool or spa water.  Using data such as pH, total alkalinity, calcium hardness and water temperature, a value is calculated.  A result of -0.5 to +0.5 is considered ideal.  Lower values are corrosive and higher values are scale-forming.  The Langelier Index helps indicate the extent of the water chemistry correction, needed to create ideal water conditions.  For more information on the topic, refer to the "Langelier Index" page.  I hope that I have explained the concept and its use.

Sincerely.  Alan Schuster, 2/11/2004

► Treating Pool Calcium Hardness?

Hi Alan, I have read that you recommend a quality mineral treatment for high calcium levels - what is a mineral treatment?

Vicki H., Dunedin, New Zealand, 3/17/2003

Mineral Treatments are chelating or sequestering agents.  They are used to help avoid staining or discoloration due to trace metals or to avoid the scaling and cloudy water conditions, that are associated with high levels of calcium hardness.  You didn't supply any details, so I'll have to speak in generalities.  If the calcium hardness is over 200 PPM and below 400 PPM, it is above the ideal, but it is manageable.  Avoid the use of products containing calcium, keep the pH at 7.2-7.6 and try to keep the total alkalinity in the 80-120 PPM range.  If the calcium hardness is above 400 PPM, the use of a mineral treatment is advised, in order to avoid possible problems.  It is, also, important to keep the pH and TA nearer the low end of optimum.  I hope that I have been helpful.

Sincerely.  Alan Schuster, 3/17/2003

Hi Alan, thanks for your prompt reply - we use Calcium Hypochlorite in the pool and at the moment our calcium hardness level is 310.

Vicki H., Dunedin, New Zealand, 3/17/2003

A level of 310 is not a serious problem.  However, if you continue to use the calcium hypochlorite the level will continue to rise and will eventually become a problem.  I suggest that you switch to a stabilized form of chlorine.  Use the existing stock of calcium hypochlorite as a shock treatment, until the supply is exhausted.  High calcium levels will lead to cloudy water and scale deposits on the underwater surfaces, so it is not too late to get a handle on the water chemistry.  I hope that I've been helpful.

Sincerely.  Alan Schuster, 3/17/2003

► Lowering High Calcium Hardness?

We have been told the effective way to reduce calcium is to drain the water.  I hate wasting water and would like to know, if there is any other way (chemically or mechanically) to do it. My pool calcium is around 450 after I drained 1/3 of the 25,000 gallons water.  Thanks.

W. K., 4/9/2005

Replacing water will work, especially if the new water is much softer.  That would mean that the high calcium hardness probably resulted from the prolonged use of calcium hypochlorite products.  450 PPM is about the upper limit, that can be controlled conveniently.  Just keep the pH close to 7.2 and there should few problems.  Of course, stop using any form of calcium hypochlorite.  Add some calcium sequestering products can improve the safety margin, by helping to avoid scaling and clouding of the water.   Good luck and I hope that I have been helpful.

Sincerely.  Alan Schuster, 4/9/2005

► Too Much Calcium?

When I opened the pool this spring I brought in a water sample for analysis.  It was pretty good, except for the calcium, which was 440 PPM.  It is a vinyl, inground pool, about 20,000 gallons.  My household water is not high in calcium, I had that tested too.  I have been using granular calcium hypochlorite for the past few years.  I guess that is where all the calcium came from.  I did have a few cloudy water problems last year.  The sand in my filter didn't look right, so to be on the safe side, I changed it.  My question is, what should I do about the high calcium and can it cause a problem?  Thanks

Lou R.,  Middletown, NY, 6/7/2004

It is quite likely that the high level of calcium hardness could have caused the cloudy water and may have caused the filter sand granules to cement together.  High pH and high total alkalinity can add to and worsen the problem of high calcium hardness.  I suggest that you add a regular dose of a quality Mineral Treatment to help deal with the calcium problem.  To help keep the calcium in the water from precipitating or scaling, I suggest that you keep the pH closer to 7.2 and the TA closer to 80 PPM.  Doing this will help keep more calcium in the water and reduce the possibility of negative effects.  In addition, I would suggest that you stop using the calcium hypochlorite, for daily sanitizing.  Continued use will cause a further increase in the calcium level and can lead to more and more problems.  A switch to a stabilized chlorine, for example, will not add more calcium.  Eventually, due to backwashing and winterizing, the calcium level will decline over the years.  Test for calcium, periodically to track of the progress.  Any calcium hypochlorite, left on hand, probably could be used for shocking purposes only.   Thereafter, try and avoid or limit the use of products containing calcium.  I hope that this information will prove helpful.

Sincerely.  Alan Schuster, 6/7/2004

► Too Little Calcium?

I just had a gunite pool put in and I brought a sample of water in for testing.  I was prepared for a long list of chemicals, but I was surprised by the amount of calcium increaser that was recommended.  Almost 40 pounds!  It's a big pool and the water is soft.  Does this make sense to you?

Dick S., Ramsey, NJ

Does it make sense?  Even though you didn't provide much in the way of details, it does make sense.  You want the calcium hardness level at 150-200 PPM.  If your water is soft and the pool big, 40 pounds sounds quite reasonable.  If you don't raise the calcium hardness level, it will be more difficult to maintain the pH.  The reason being, if you don't add the calcium to the water - the water will dissolve or etch the walls, until an equilibrium is reached.   If you want to avoid the pH problems and the surface etching, you should add the calcium hardness increaser.  Fortunately, the chemical is not overly expensive and it should be a one-shot expense.  The dealer is really doing the right thing, with the recommendation.  I hope that I have been helpful.

Sincerely.  Alan Schuster

► Way Too Much Calcium?

My water supply comes from a well and it is very hard.  As a result of this, the calcium hardness of the pool water is about 800 PPM.   I've had cloudy water, scaling and a rough deposit on the tile surfaces.   Short of having softer water trucked in (which I would like to avoid), is there anything I can do?  Looking for some help.  Thanks.

Carl R., Sedona, AZ, 3/23/2004

I agree, a calcium hardness reading of 800 PPM is too high and problems are not unexpected.  Trucking in water or having some of the water softened are obvious solutions, that you just might have to consider.   In the meanwhile, I suggest that you try the following steps.  Add a double or triple dose of a quality Mineral Treatment to help sequester the calcium.  Drop the pH to 7.2 and try and keep it there.   The lower pH will help keep more of the calcium in solution and could help solve or reduce the problem.  Your total alkalinity is also probably too high.  You may not be able to do much with the TA, because it is probably not due solely to carbonates.  Lowering the pH will lower the TA, so you should expect to see some improvement.  Under no circumstances should you use products containing calcium.  Read the labels.  There are chlorine and shock treatments that do not contain calcium.  The key to success may be the lowering of the pH to 7.2 and keeping it there.  For more information on the calcium scale, refer to the "Langelier Index" page.  I hope that this information will prove helpful.

Sincerely.  Alan Schuster, 3/24/2004

► Rough Deposits?

► High Calcium And TDS?

We just bought a house with a 20,000 gal. swimming pool.  As it is the first time, we are uncertain how to treat the water.  The test results are:  FAC 8, TAC 8, pH 7.3, total alkalinity 230, CYA 100, calcium hardness 870, TDS 2600, negative on copper and iron.  I would appreciate if you could give me some advise on how to start treatment.  Thank you.

Walter W., Temecula, CA, 8/30/2004

A calcium hardness reading of 870 PPM is very high.   I suggest that you add a dose of a quality Mineral Treatment on a monthly basis.   In addition, try and keep the pH at 7.2-7.4 and the TA below 200 PPM.  Doing this can make the water chemistry more tolerant of the high calcium level.  Free and Total Chlorine readings of 8 are doubtful.  It would be unusual for both readings to be the same.  In any event, it is indicative of too much chlorine for proper bather comfort.  Try and keep the Free Chlorine reading at 1-3 PPM.  The Total Chlorine reading should be no more that 1 PPM higher than the Free Chlorine.  The Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) can be the real problem.  You didn't include your state, but I suspect that it is in the southwest.  A TDS of 2600 PPM is very high and can lead to water quality problems and the loss of sanitizer efficiency.  It would be a good idea to have your household water tested.  If it is much lower, you should consider doing some water replacement over time.  Good luck.

Sincerely.  Alan Schuster, 8/30/2004

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